SuperManager: Work and Life Balance

Are your work life, home life, and spiritual life in balance?  Take a listen to these well balanced (sort of) SuperManagers discussing work and life balance:

Host:
Samantha Naes - CN Video Production

Guess:
Joel Emery - Ignite Strategies
Mary Kutheis - MCK Coaching
Theresa Phelps - Rosenblum, Goldenhersh, PC
Kristen Reed-Edens - Kristen Edens LLC

Transcript

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CN Video Production:   0:02
You're listening to Super Manager, the podcast with a diverse panel of experts discussing what goes on in the office and your host Samantha Naes with CN Video, your businesses video team on call.

Samantha Naes:   0:15
We had a conversation last month. I think where we were talking about reducing stress, like the amount that you care about your job being a factor in how stressed out you are

Joel Emery:   0:25
right.  

Samantha Naes:   0:26
And Joel is interesting because you said you didn't know if you had anything to contribute to the conversation. But then you brought up a really interesting point. You said that oftentimes if you're feeling overly stressed out at work, it may not just be because you really care about doing things right. It might be that you don't have a good work life balance, then that brought up the question. Okay, that sounds like great advice, and it makes perfect sense. But what do we do to make those things balance?  

Samantha Naes:   0:49
So this week, we're gonna be talking about work, life balance, and I have with me my completely balanced super friends,

Joel Emery:   0:57
Joel Emery with Atomic Revenue and Ignite Strategies I serve as  a sales systems architect for small and midsize businesses.

Kristen Edens:   1:05
I'm Kristen Edens at kristenedens. com. And I'm a content writer and content specialist for business

Mary Kutheis:   1:10
and I'm Mary Kutheis with M. C. K. Coaching. I'm an executive coach for business owners and leaders in organizations.

Teresa Phelps:   1:20
I'm Teresa Phelps. I'm a Labour employment attorney working for Rosenblum Goldenhersh

Samantha Naes:   1:24
and I am Samantha Naes with CN Video. We do corporate video production. 

Mary Kutheis:   1:30
Well, I have a different view on work, life, balance in terms of what it means.  

Samantha Naes:   1:34
Okay,  

Mary Kutheis:   1:34
Very often, people think that it's an evenness, that I'm spending as much time at work as I am at home in that kind of thing, and it's impossible to achieve right. Yeah, the way I like to look at it is, it's more balance like a surfer has. So they're balanced it their core. And so whatever comes at them, they're able to stay on the board because they're prepared. So it's the same thing if our brains and our bodies are worked on, so that we are centered at our core and we're focused and we're prepared, then whatever comes at us we're ableto handle more effectively, so crazy times at work where you're spending more time there, you can more easily handle it or problems at home. You can more easily whether it because what's inside is ready.

Kristen Edens:   2:19
I have a good thing to add to that. On balance, how about boundaries? You have to be able to know where to make personal boundaries, professional boundaries, family boundaries and get all those in. Because if you've got them all bombarding you like little spearheads all the time, you can only deflect so many, and then that just affects everything. And so it's important to establish those boundaries. So am I gonna work these hours? When am I going to turn off my phone? So that family was just a very important thing. And what hours am I going to be strictly available to family, to friends, even and even to business and then even just time for ourselves?  

Teresa Phelps:   3:00
And that's really important the phone thing, because phones are everywhere now, and our clients just think that we can be available at the drop of a hat 10 o'clock at night,

Kristen Edens:   3:08
so does our family

Teresa Phelps:   3:09
and our family, too. And it's tempting to not set those boundaries because, you know you want to make people happy. And so then you're answering emails or answering calls, and it's just mixing all the time like you're not really having a dedicated time for this or for that I found that that is difficult. But I've been doing that lately. I think a little bit better because it does get to the point where you're like, I just feel overwhelmed.

Joel Emery:   3:29
you end up doing neither one. Where is what happens if you're trying to work and do family and maybe something else at the same time that the end result is nobody gets what they

Samantha Naes:   3:39
I have actually been in this situation before, where I am for whatever reason, up late, and I just want to shoot someone an email so they see it in the morning, right when they come in or leave a voice message or something and they actually respond or the answer, and then I feel really bad because I'm like, I didn't mean to bother you on Sunday night at three in the morning, but you never know when people are going to answer when they're going to say that, and I had people contacting me, I would try to be kind of polite about it. I'd get a phone call and it be a Saturday afternoon, and I'd answer the phone because it forwards to my cell phone is for emergencies. And I would say, Oh, I'm at the store right now. Is there something that you needed right now? And they're just continue on, continue on. So I have stopped answering my phone on the weekends. I'll let it go to voicemail and then I'll check the voicemail. And if it's somebody saying, Hey, it's an emergency, I need to talk to you. Then I'll call them back,

Teresa Phelps:   4:28
One of my partners actually puts his cell phone in a drawer when he gets home and leaves it there, closes the drawer. Leaves it there.

Samantha Naes:   4:34
So it's separate work. Phone? Yeah,

Kristen Edens:   4:36
yeah, and I think that's a great idea. 

Mary Kutheis:   4:38
It's a great plan because that old saying we teach what we allow,  

Kristen Edens:   4:41
Yes,  

Mary Kutheis:   4:41
so if we answer the question immediately because we want to get it off of our plate, what the other person is thinking is, oh, every time I reach out the answer right away, and so we just have to set your boundaries, even if it makes it seem a little odd to you at first it's Do you want to keep doing this forever? Right? Then don't do it right now.

Samantha Naes:   4:59
I actually had to tell someone because he would call on weekends and I would answer the phone. And finally he had called just to talk about something coming up, and I said, Listen, our regular work hours are Monday through Friday from 8 to 5. I answer my cell phone in case of emergencies. But is this something we can talk about during the work week? And then he said, Oh, okay, I didn't realize. And of course he did, because I'd been answering my phone.  

Mary Kutheis:   5:19
Sure, yeah,  

Samantha Naes:   5:19
so he had no way of knowing.

Kristen Edens:   5:21
But then we still have that habit of its business. I could answer. And so that's where the boundaries come in.

Samantha Naes:   5:27
get it taken care of.  

Kristen Edens:   5:28
Yeah,  

Samantha Naes:   5:29
you kind of think Well, if I do it now, I won't have to do it on Monday. But that's a slippery slope.

Kristen Edens:   5:34
Yes, it is.  

Joel Emery:   5:36
One of one of the ways I framed this with people that I've worked with and have worked for me is I want everybody that I work with to keep three things and balance that being their work, their family in some form of spiritual component. And to Mary's point, it doesn't mean equal time between each. It's what that respective need is that they have. But I think it's important to keep those in mind. The three of those just to clear ones, because just any one of those falling too far short can make kind of like the stool tipped over. And by spiritually, I don't mean church. It might be painting. It might be yoga on top of a mountain. It's something that satisfies that some sort of internal, meditative need that could be in so many, many, many different ways.  Now where what's interesting is where I find that to be the biggest challenge is with people who fall in the category of professional artists, because frequently those three things all start really overlapping. The intersecting, you know, maybe whether they're a painter, a performer, their creative outlet, what they do for that spiritual component is the same as what they're doing for work. Then frequently at times, it's so all consuming to do that work part that then the Children and the spouse get involved in it, too, you know, as part of selling. Or, you know, maybe it's going to craft fairs and performances or whatever the case may be.

Samantha Naes:   6:50
I consider that a good thing is that

Joel Emery:   6:52
well. But you know, there is no separation at some point, too, so there's good to it. But when it comes time to retire and step back at that point, there's no separation from any of these things. If the person steps back into retirement, there's no. 

Samantha Naes:   7:06
But I think for the present time for the current time and feel free to disagree with me, I actually feel like you can feel very much in balance if everything does flow together, if your life and your work... one of the things that I do and maybe And maybe this is what makes me a basket case and maybe I'm seeing it all wrong. But I feel like if I can incorporate my personal life with my life at work, it feels more in balance. Is it better to keep them separate, or is it better if you can get him to work together? 

Kristen Edens:   7:36
Well, I think one of the key,

:   7:36


Samantha Naes:   7:37
or am I kidding myself and I

Mary Kutheis:   7:38
I think one of the keys is you have to do what works for you. Just because something works for someone else doesn't necessarily mean it has to work for you. I think the awareness of is my brain in the right place. Am I comfortable or do I feel stressed when I'm dealing with home stuff and thinking about work? Or do I feel guilty when I'm dealing with work stuff and I'm thinking about home, then you need to fix something. But if yours is working for you the way it's working, I don't think there's a reason to change it.

Samantha Naes:   8:04
I don't know that it is. How do you know if you have a good work life balance?  

Mary Kutheis:   8:08
Are you miserable?  

Samantha Naes:   8:10
No, I wouldn't say that

Mary Kutheis:   8:11
Well there you go 

Samantha Naes:   8:13
Well but there's gotta be something in between life is good and I'm miserable, you know, warning signs that maybe you're slipping on that slope or that you need some improvement or something.

Kristen Edens:   8:23
My tip came from my granddaughter about a year and 1/2 ago and she comes up to me and she goes, Grandma, when can we play? It was Sunday. Yeah, I just said she goes, but you're always working on your computer and I saw a play, but he'll play with you and she goes. But Grandma, I want to play now. I've been waiting and then I realized, OK, Sunday it's Sunday. I've been doing this like she said  

Samantha Naes:   8:46
right  

Kristen Edens:   8:47
all the time. Okay, 

Samantha Naes:   8:48
It kind of is playtime with that point.

Kristen Edens:   8:50
It is playtime. And so that was my key that maybe I am doing too much and not giving the family enough. So it took my granddaughter to tell me. But I want to play.

Samantha Naes:   9:00
You know what's funny, is it? She's not a granddaughter. But Mili, My dog is very in tune with things like that, and you think I'm crazy. But I swear to you, if it's late at night and I'm working, she will actually trick me into stop working. She'll start barking at me, and she lets me know that she needs something and I'm like, What is it? What is it? She'll pretend like she needs to go outside. She'll run to the door. Oh, it's an emergency! It's an emergency! And when I get up to let her out, she hops into bed, looks at me, and she's like, Mom, it's bedtime. And if I'm really stressing about something, she'll start barking. If I ignore her for X amount of time, because I'm just it's a weekend. I'm working too long. She will get my attention and she won't stop. And I'll start a little bit frustrated. I'll say, Come on. I'm working now and I'll find myself getting more and more frustrated. I don't know if you did this with your granddaughter, but to be like you. Really? You just gotta wait a little bit longer. Just let me finish what I'm doing. Just let me and then you realize they're not gonna wait and you go, okay? And then you let go when I can do something else.

Kristen Edens:   9:59
Yeah. My key was realizing she recognizes something I don't write and my cats do the same. So I'm with you there

Mary Kutheis:   10:08
a long time ago. Our our son is 20 now, so my office is in my home. And when he was young, one of the things that I learned early on from someone else was that if he happened to be around when I was working, if he came in and wanted to do something, we did it, I would say, Yeah, let's play for half an hour and then Mom needs to go back to work. So he came first, and then the work came after that, and he always knew that. And it was up front that this wasn't gonna be all afternoon because it was a work time. Now, if it was Saturday or Sunday, that's a different story.

Samantha Naes:   10:38
And that's good for you, too, because all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.  

Mary Kutheis:   10:43
And the guilt because it is  

Kristen Edens:   10:44
and Sam and Chris...

Mary Kutheis:   10:45
It feels guilty to say. Not right now, Not right now, even if it's even if it's just a gnat back in your brain, it feels bad to push someone off who's asking for your love and attention

Kristen Edens:   10:56
exactly. 

Samantha Naes:   10:57
But we need play time too  

Mary Kutheis:   10:58
I don't think it's a but I think that's an and yeah, yeah,

Joel Emery:   11:02
So also, from a managerial perspective, I think one of the challenges that we have is identifying when those around us need help support in this so paying attention to whether it's colleagues, people that we are subordinate to, or people who are subordinate to us when they're out of balance and how we can help help them get back to that.  

Mary Kutheis:   11:20
Yes,

Samantha Naes:   11:20
I think a lot of people think that if they're working harder and they're working longer, they're more productive. And I have found that actually working less and taking more breaks, you can get more done. So I guess a warning sign would be if somebody really seems to be spinning and spinning and spinning and the quality of their work isn't good or they're just not getting things done. Maybe

Joel Emery:   11:40
the two main indicators I've noticed is one. The person suddenly starts getting more cranky, like snapping at you are things like that in the course of conversation. It's the change that that suddenly happens, that something's shifted.

Samantha Naes:   11:51
And that could be a work life balance or an issue in one or the other that needs to be addressed

Joel Emery:   11:55
somewhere. Something's out of balance needs to be dealt with, and the other is a sudden decrease in quality of performance, those kind of the two of significant ones. But at that point, I mean a really good frank conversation needs to be had about what's driving that,

Samantha Naes:   12:09
and I was just going to say and how do you deal with that? I guess the conversation. It's not like you couldn't go tell someone to go do a hobby or, 

Mary Kutheis:   12:17
well, I think one of the keys is the leader is used to working a lot. The stakes are very high, right, and they may work tons and work on weekends. And when they're people are watching that, they may think they need to do that, too. If it's if nothing is said, they might think that they have to match what their leaders doing, and that's a bad precedent to set. So even if the leader wants to continue to do that, they need to make very clear this is not expected of all of you,

Teresa Phelps:   12:43
right.  And go back to what Sam said. How do you bring that up to somebody? Because you can't just walk in and be like, Hey, I think your work life balance is out of whack, you need to go do something

Samantha Naes:   12:53
Fix it.

Teresa Phelps:   12:53
you know, from a legal perspective. That's not gonna fly. So you really have to be delicate in your approach and making conversation is a good idea and that goes to how close you are with your employees

Samantha Naes:   13:03
Now see that's tricky though too.

Joel Emery:   13:04
long term, it's a long term rapport building process. It's being both inherent, learned and intentional and it has to do with somebody's personality. It's a mix of those things, 

Samantha Naes:   13:15
all right, so I have three questions to consider. One is, how do you recognize there's a problem and improve your work/ Life Balance?  Number two is How do you recognize it in an employee and help them get their work life in balance. And then the 3rd one is, Are there things that we can do before it becomes a problem? Like you said, letting people know you don't have to work on weekends, but what can we do? What can we add to accompany culture that just subconsciously encourages that good work life balance without it becoming something you have to talk about? 

Mary Kutheis:   13:47
I think one of the keys is any organization has to have their set of core values. They have to know what the core values are so that people know whether it's the right fit for them, because when you are behaving and aligning with whatever those are, then you have a similar mindset going in. But if you go in and you say family is one of the core values and yet you expect everybody to work on the weekends. Then clearly you're saying something that isn't aligning with the truth.

Samantha Naes:   14:17
One of the things that I do that I think helps, nothing measurable. But I always tell people first day right off the bat. If there's something that you need to take care of, take care of it. I had somebody who came out to do an internship that had to rent an apartment. They were from another city. It's not uncommon, and they were having difficulties getting settled into their apartment. There were some issues with some of the appliances and water got shut off. Just something's going on. And he was really going crazy trying to get these things taken care of in between. And I finally just had a conversation with him and I said, Listen, if the water company can come out, then go go deal with it, just let me know you need to go. Don't worry about them calling or texting you while you're at the office. If you got something you need to take care of and I say the same thing with medical issues. If you need to go to a doctor, don't worry about scheduling it after hours or on weekends. Just schedule it when you need to schedule it, get it done and make up the time or get your work done in some other way, and I think that helps. But it's not everything that you should be doing, but I think it helps a little bit.

Mary Kutheis:   15:19
I think again having a practice of self care that's promoted in the organization. I mean, there could be wellness programs. There might be a nap room or meditation room or all the kinds of things

Samantha Naes:   15:31
The cry room.  

Mary Kutheis:   15:33
I think there is one of those at FedEx, because people are so mean to them, not the people, not their bosses. but the customers. So I think all those things send the message or giving people a stipend for a little bit of time off to do a sabbatical. Some places do that or giving discounts for joining a gym. There could be all sorts of things that they can do to set the message that we do value the time that you spend working on yourself.

Samantha Naes:   16:00
I know some companies of one of my clients Scott Credit Union. They actually give their employees time off to do community outreach work.  

Mary Kutheis:   16:08
Love that.

Joel Emery:   16:10
A lot of especially lending institutions. Banks tend to do that because it does align with marketing initiatives as well. To be honest, right there, people being out and about in the community raises the profile in the community, therefore helps them.  

Samantha Naes:   16:20
It's just a win win win. Everybody feels better,  

Joel Emery:   16:22
absolutely, and a lot of them take that really far and even measure the metrics associated with it.

Samantha Naes:   16:27
And then what do you do with somebody who just doesn't have a live?

Mary Kutheis:   16:29
I think if the leader has a good relationship with their direct report, one of the things that shouldn't be a six month performance review it ought to be a meeting that you have maybe once a week or once every two weeks, where you just where you go into their office and you sit down. And how are you? How are things going? Yeah, and just ask that question and leave it open for them to tell you what's going on. And if they know that you're a non judgmental person and a good listener, you will get the truth out of them. If you're not a nonjudgmental person and a good listener, then you need to learn to be one because you're a manager,

Samantha Naes:   17:02
right.  And I think that's a really good point because I think the annual or semi annual reviews have kind of gone by the wayside. And it's really more an on going day to day sort of thing. And we've talked in other podcasts about just asking periodically, How are you?  not just work related.  It can be work related. It could be home related, but just how are you? And that's a very good point. That's a good way to determine if there is a problem and maybe encourage people to

Kristen Edens:   17:26
listening. And observing is also important. Now I'm self employed, but I do outsource, and I like getting to know the people. So hey, how are you? What's going on? By the way, I need this done. But also, what do you do in your free time? What are you going to do this weekend and then they'll give you all I'm gonna go hiking or I'm gonna goto blues game or something, and so you can pick up on those things and listen to him. So if you have, ah, large company. It's a little harder to do, but

Samantha Naes:   17:53
well, the department, everybody's everybody's got a manager or supervisor.

Kristen Edens:   17:56
But just taking that time, whether you're self employed or employed elsewhere in a big company, just listening and observing, because people will get to know each other. And you can hear in their voice if something's off or if they're edgy or 

Samantha Naes:   18:12
Then what?  So you talked to an employee and you say So what do you doing this weekend? And they go? Uh, nothing. Nothing.

Joel Emery:   18:18
That's not necessarily a bad thing. If it's over and over again,  

Mary Kutheis:   18:22
you ask me. I think I'd be like, very happy if that was the case. If I said nothing would be thrilling,

Joel Emery:   18:27
That might be there. Intentional choice. That might be what they want to do. So that's not necessarily inherently a bad. 

Samantha Naes:   18:34
But I mean, if you talked with this person because you feel they're overly stressed and their performance is...  

Mary Kutheis:   18:41
say, Is that a good thing? I would just ask them,  

Samantha Naes:   18:43
Yeah. Oh, there you go.

Mary Kutheis:   18:45
Nothing. Is that a good thing? Yes, absolutely. I love my love decompressing. I like to sit at home and read by the fire. Great

Joel Emery:   18:51
I like to watch tv with my dog in my lap.

Mary Kutheis:   18:52
exactly So it's hard when we have our own perspective not to assume that that person's perspective as well, because it seems so natural. But it could be very different fromyou  

Joel Emery:   19:04
oh and frequently, when somebody says nothing, it means nothing out of the ordinary. So it might be, Well, I'm actually getting up at 7 a.m. Making breakfast for the kids, taking them to a soccer game and then gymnastics that dance and then going grocery shopping while one of them is there and then driving here and doing that and then hoping to hit the couch by 10:30 to watch SNL.

Samantha Naes:   19:21
Well, I think I think the point, though, was how you help. If you feel that there's a problem and you try asking them, how are you? And you don't get much of a response. Obviously, there's gotta be a cut off. You talked about boundaries. Supervisor cannot take responsibility for making sure that someone's personal life is going well, right? But if it's affecting their work life than what do you do?

Mary Kutheis:   19:42
You know I have a question? This is a legal question your way back in the day when I was in corporate. My boyfriend and I at the time were victims of a violent crime. We were mugged and he was shot and he's he lived. When I went back to work, my boss suggested that I go to E AP. She said, You may think you're OK, but I strongly suggest that you go to EAP for a little bit and just talk about it. It would that be OK now?

:   19:42
  

Teresa Phelps:   20:06
Yeah, it and that's okay because you're not forcing them to do it. You're not conditioning anything, you know. It may be taken as an implied. I'm telling you, you have to go by the employees, but there's no legal problem with that. I think that's okay.

Mary Kutheis:   20:20
She was a very caring person. So having that background made me think that she was doing it in concern for me.

Teresa Phelps:   20:28
Yeah, and it's okay to have these open conversations and make suggestions like that if you think that an employee is dealing with something in their personal life that they really just need to work through. But there is a point where you can't force them to do anything unless it is affecting their work and it's affecting company, and you make a decision that you just need to tell them 

Samantha Naes:   20:46
let them know they're having performance issues.

Teresa Phelps:   20:48
But you know, it's okay to have those conversations with them. I think good managers do have those conversations,

Joel Emery:   20:52
and I think you have to approach from a coaching perspective. One, Every individual is different, and you're trying to coach them to attain whatever it is that they need to attain so. But if you walk into a preconceived notions about what everybody's structure needs to be, and trying to dictate and structure that for people in that obviously does regardless of  law, just structurally doesn't work. But one thing I look back on this somewhere around 2004 so before I knew better had an employee who her balance was very out of alignment. I mean, she was up in the 70 80 hours a week range and getting to the office at 8 a.m. And leaving at 9 p.m. Most days sort of structure, so not spending any time with spouse and child. And for her annual review, we actually, as part of her compensation, sent her family on a Disney cruise we just said You know what? We want you to unplug. So we are actually doing this. We've in fact, bought the tickets. I mean, this is when you're going I mean it was to that extent,

Joel Emery:   21:54
Was there any pushback from her?

Joel Emery:   21:54
No! but it was also intentional. And I mean, it worked for this specific person, and I still think that was a good initiative. But the problem was we didn't at that time really make any structural changes that would make that an ongoing impact upon her life. So I think it was a good thing, and I think it was well intentioned and it had about three weeks of impact. But because there were no concerted efforts on the part of the leadership of the company, I will recuse myself in terms of I was too young to know better and just absolve myself there.

Samantha Naes:   22:21
And then on that note, can anybody tell me a horror story about someone's work life being out of balance? Come on, guys. You know, I'm gonna ask for a horror story. How many times have we been through this?

Kristen Edens:   22:35
Well, I will say that my mother died in September, and so I was her caregiver. The last several years. And when that came, yes, and I was out of town attending a conference when the word came, and so it just threw everything out of whack. And so as a caregiver, it's a very rough experience to balance everything and to keep work going and to keep family going and keep myself going. So her death was rather sudden. And then all of a sudden, I'm thrown into the aftermath of a parent's death, and it is a full time job to do that. And so I'm taking care of that on top of all those other things, and I started to crumble, so it took me three months to get back to that. There were evenings. I just finish up whatever I was doing and then just sit on the floor with my cats and cry, and I'm thinking, Oh, I need to get through this So you have to recognize your crumbling. You have to take the steps and then work towards a goal.

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