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SuperManager: Imposter Syndrome Part 2 - What is it and What Can You Do?
Find out by being a fly on the wall for this discussion with:
Samantha Naes - CN Video Production
Mike Kitko - Mike Kitko Coaching
Angie Kitko - Mike Kitko Coaching
Jeff Koziatek - Core Authenticity
CN Video Production: 0:03
You're listening to Super Manager the podcast with a diverse panel of experts discussing what goes on in the office. And your host, Samantha Naes with CN Video, corporate video production. Your businesses video team on call
Samantha Naes: 0:17
This week going to be talking about dealing with imposter syndrome, and I have my very, really non imposter super friends with me we have
Mike Kitko: 0:25
My name is Mike Kitko. I am an executive coach with Mike Kitko Coaching. I help executives feel as powerful inside as they appear on the outside. And I just published my first book, The Imposter in Charge,
Angie Kitko: 0:35
and I'm Angie Kitco, also with Mike Kitko Coaching and I am a speaker and connector
Jeff Koziatek: 0:40
Jeff Koziatek with Core Authenticity. I help people reframe how they see themselves so they can change how they see other people.
Samantha Naes: 0:46
And I am Samantha Naes with CN Video. We do corporate video production.
Jeff Koziatek: 0:51
How do you define Imposter syndrome?
Samantha Naes: 0:55
How do I define it?
Jeff Koziatek: 0:57
Yeah, cause I had a thought on that, but I
Samantha Naes: 1:00
Well, I don't know. I mean, my definition is kind of the story that I told initially where you think that you don't measure up to people that are " legitimate". But the actual definition I did do a Google search for hand. The actual definition of imposter syndrome is when people don't believe that success is deserved or as a result of their efforts or skills,
Mike Kitko: 1:23
its value are worth. It all goes back to value our worth.
Jeff Koziatek: 1:27
Well, the reason I ask is because you see a lot of people in transitions or like working full time, and then they stay at home, be a state home mom or stay at home dad. And then there's this feeling I have seen in other people and personally experienced where you're like, do I have anything to contribute, really? Because I'm at home. So when I'm out and I'm talking to somebody, everybody asks, So what do you do? And if you say, Well, I'm a stay at home dad or I'm a stay at home Mom, there's this feeling like, uh, you know, So you want to refocus that anyone to put on this mask.
Samantha Naes: 2:00
That's internal, though, isn't it? That's internal because,
Angie Kitko: 2:03
uh, well, not it is internal, but it also has a lot to do with what society that the pressure and the outside influences that you get. And I know when I decided to go back to work and after being a stay at home mom for 13 years, I was in that exact space, like, What do I have to offer? And my husband sat down and started listing all of these things that I had to do or that I got to do as a mom and created this resume for me, helped me create a resume that I was able to look at and say, Oh, wow, I did so much as a mom. But you hear Oh, she's just a stay at home mom. Oh, he's just a stay at home dad. Like we're sitting at home popping bon bons and watching television all day. And I don't think I was ever the greatest stay at home mom of the greatest housewife. But there was a lot. There was a lot of skill gained during that time,
Samantha Naes: 2:59
But don't you find now that you have more confidence that you've come to that realization that there's value in what you were doing, that when you present it to others, others aren't looking down their nose at you as much as maybe they were when you felt self conscious about it.
Angie Kitko: 3:14
Oh right. Just like my husband said, You know how you see yourself. It's what everybody else sees you so and I'm also a ninth grade dropout. I dropped out of high school ninth grade because I left home due to an abusive household. So I also have that lack of education stay at home mom. And when I first began getting asked to speak on addiction and recovery, which is my zone of genius, that's what I know and what I factually know and have experience. And I still had that ninth grade dropout who my to get up on this stage and help teach these people my life experiences. And now that I have that, I built that up, and now I see myself in a much higher level of significance. Everybody else sees me in that level.
Mike Kitko: 3:54
I like. I heard this quote one time, but it was really cool that you'll never be criticized by someone who has attained more than you for trying. So I'm gonna bring it all back to the impostor syndrome. But if someone's built a $1,000,000 business and you're just starting your business. Somebody who started a $1,000,000 business, who's successful is not going to criticize you, right? They're gonna cheer, leave you and they're gonna champion you. They're not going to try to beat you down. You'll never be criticized by someone who's attained more than you for trying. You'll always be criticized by someone who's attained less than you, who's jealous of what you're trying to do or feel that they can't do it. And I think it all comes back to confidence as well. So when you're dealing with someone with low confidence, they're going to judge the living shit out of people that have more confidence than and they're going to try to tear you down and get you back down to where they are, because no one with more confidence is going to tear someone with lesser confidence down. They're going to try to help him prop him up, right? Love, empathy and compassion is helping people like get to where you are pity and sympathy and abuse, and it's pulling them down. It's pulling people down, people with more confidence than you will not beat you down.
Jeff Koziatek: 5:05
This is why I constantly talk about a value meter. It's like if you're playing a video game, there's, Ah, life bar. Usually love your head, let you know where your or in the old Arby's commercial there's like a floating hat. So if we can picture everybody walking through life with this value meter right next to him on a scale of 1 to 10 10 being full and one being Oh my gosh, right, if we're looking for our value outside of ourselves, this value meter is never full. There's always a gap, and we always have to earn more. We have to defend what we have or we have to inflate and put on our imposter face
Samantha Naes: 5:37
and it would be based on your surroundings, too
Jeff Koziatek: 5:40
surroundings, other people's perceptions. And when we're like that, we totally do what you're saying. We tear other people down, we don't help them out. We guard the secret sauce. We don't pass on a legacy, and we definitely don't give people a hand up. But when we stand on our intrinsic value, that value meters a 10 all the time, regardless of our perception and when we're on that, then we're encouraging other people. Then we're lifting people up.
Samantha Naes: 6:04
But the question is, how how do you achieve that
Mike Kitko: 6:07
by connecting to your true value and worth. So in client conversations, you know, when I have someone, especially when I have a new client, I I asked him that question. What makes you valuable, and worthy? What makes you deserving of everything that you want. And typically during this like crisis mode in the front in the beginning of our conversations. And it's about their role with their title or their income or the health of their marriage or whatever. And it's ultimately, I do this really cool exercise where I get them into close your eyes and breathe, practice, breathing and then help them understand. You know, hey, feel feel your stomach. Feel the energy. They probably at this point never taken time to just really feel their body
Jeff Koziatek: 6:45
after your doughnuts or chili
Mike Kitko: 6:48
Preferably before doughnuts. But when they feel the energy in their body right and they feel their body, probably for the first time, say, that's what makes you valuable, because you are because you exist because you're breathing
Samantha Naes: 7:00
so meditation, I mean, that's really what you're
Mike Kitko: 7:01
exactly right? I'm getting him into a meditative state, getting them to connect to their humanity, right, their body, their divinity within. Get them to connect to that and say that is what makes you valuable. Because they're seven points
Angie Kitko: 7:14
not these external things
Mike Kitko: 7:15
No... nothing on the outside. You're equally worthy and deserving as everyone else. there's 7.7 billion people on the planet. And we're all genetically the same, right? Basically biologically the same red blood cells, white blood cells, you know, nerve endings, hair, lack of hair. Whatever.
Jeff Koziatek: 0:00
Thank you.
Mike Kitko: 7:32
No, I'm pointing to myself you right, so we're brother and boldness. But the point is, we're all equal when it comes to our biological makeup, right? The Only thing that separates us is our relationship with ourselves. And there's someone in the world that has a higher, a more pure and more healthy relationship with themselves than I do. And there's someone who has a lesser relationship with themselves, than I do. And that's the only thing that separates our value and our worth right is our connection to ourselves.
Samantha Naes: 8:03
So it sounds like meditation, having respect for accepting yourself and not taking other people's perfect lives that you see on Instagram and Facebook too seriously comparing yourself on the inside other people on the outside.
Mike Kitko: 8:19
We compare our back office to somebody else's front office, right? Our front office to somebody else's back office. And it's not apples and apples. And there are no comparisons between people on the planet. We're all different.
Jeff Koziatek: 8:30
So this is really big soapbox for me.
Samantha Naes: 8:34
Okay. Go for it. Go, Go, man. Go.
: 8:36
Jeff Koziatek: 8:37
Uh, and that with that introduction, I totally lost my train of thought.
Angie Kitko: 8:42
(laughing) performance anxiety much?
Mike Kitko: 8:43
No. So
Samantha Naes: 8:47
and I'm keeping this part in. We're not editing. (laughing)
Jeff Koziatek: 8:52
I was just having a conversation with the guy about this just last week. He's like, you know what is personal worth. Where does that come from? For me, I believe everybody has value because we were created on purpose for a purpose. If you want to take faith out of it for a second, if you just look at the physical laws that keep all of us together the sun here at just the right space from the earth to spin the way our molecules hold together in just the right way. You know, the guy was saying Oh, yeah. So six million years led to this. I'm like, Okay, if we go down that road, here we are and just one thing is just slightly off. We, like, disintegrate, right that has value, really. And then if you take both of those things off the table and say as you go through life, you've got really one of two options, right? One option says that I have value no matter what I do, no matter what has happened to me like it's full all the time. And because of that, I can drop the judgment stick and I can show up and I can be present in all my relationships and I could help. And not only that, but I can be free to give or to hold on to. I can be free to pursue a career and walk away or stay in. The other option is the walk around with the judgment stick with a low sense of value, and in that case, then I pick up the impostor mask right, and then I try to pretend that I'm something that I'm not or pretend to be something else that I'm not or on the other, and I pull up the imposter mask that says I am nothing. I am the rape victim. I am the guy the constantly gets laid off. I am the person that always makes mistakes like both are right
Mike Kitko: 10:25
identity, we assigned our identity to something that changes. And that's not consistent. And we are not. Our identity is not in something that we can lose.
: 10:23
Jeff Koziatek: 10:34
No. And when we go down that impostor road, it's never enough, and we're constantly fighting. We're constantly defending and we're justifying ourselves, even even if we know that it's wrong, we're still justified because that's the source of our value. I'm like This is the two ways we can live our life. So what do you want? Right?
Samantha Naes: 10:53
I've actually been reading a book... or listening. I've actually been listening to a book on tape, and it talks about how people tend to judge themselves more harshly than other people, how you might be forgiving of someone else or you might love someone else in spite of their flaws or faults or inabilities. But if you have that flaw or fault or inability, you judge yourself much more harshly and you feel like you're not worth anything because of it.
Angie Kitko: 11:22
Yeah,
Samantha Naes: 11:22
and they recommended that you treat yourself the way you treat any other loved one or as you would treat yourself as a child.
Jeff Koziatek: 11:30
Yeah,
Angie Kitko: 11:31
I was at a I went to a text speaker event in ST Louis a couple of years ago, and and there was this woman Speaker series, and there was a lady on stage, and I don't know if it was nerves or whatever it was, but I not even sure if she knew that she was on stage like she stumbled over herself and she just kept fumbling and fumbling. And I sat there in that audience, applauding her for being up there doing it. And I was on a podcast a few weeks ago and I could not pull the word reputation, and I had a meltdown. Cancel that podcast. Do not air it re recorded for one word. But I'm sitting here just applauding this woman for getting out there and
Samantha Naes: 12:12
I know. Yeah,
Jeff Koziatek: 12:14
the thing I was trying to remember
Samantha Naes: 12:15
did, I remind you.
Jeff Koziatek: 12:17
Yeah, I'm always telling people you're not going to see value in somebody else beyond what you see in yourself. And if you're walking around with the impostor mask, you're limiting you and you're limiting your relationships with other people.
Samantha Naes: 12:31
all right, we're good.
Jeff Koziatek: 12:32
No, no, we're not Because but you're talking about how to get out of the Imposter Syndrome
Samantha Naes: 12:37
Okay?
Jeff Koziatek: 12:37
I don't think it's a stamp Sam. you can't just say, Hey, you have value. You can set down the mask. And you you I feel like along with the meditation stuff we were talking about, you have to hash tag, wash your brain like every day. Remind yourself, uh, who you are and what you're about, what your values are. As soon as you stop reminding yourself your perception is gonna take you down the impostors syndrome
Samantha Naes: 13:00
We used to joke about Was that Stuart Smalley's?
Angie Kitko: 13:03
Yes. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darnit, people like me.
Jeff Koziatek: 13:08
we make fun of that. But the reality is, if we don't remind ourselves of the truth, we're going to get all these messages out here that say you're not enough unless you have the iPhone 17,000. You're not enough unless you live over here. We need that constant that constant reminding.
Samantha Naes: 13:24
And on that note, do we have an imposter syndrome horror story? I bet you somebody could come up with one.
Mike Kitko: 13:31
Yeah, my own. I I'm in a business, and I've just assembled the greatest team in the history of manufacturing right, Put this team together and they're performing. I walk into a room, I give my team that I paid a lot of money a problem. They would kick me out because they could solve it and I would just get in the way and I would leave the room and I'd feel like a disaster because I couldn't contribute. But I put those brains in that room to be able to solve that problem because that's what they were doing by kicking me out was they were taking stress and pressure off of me because they respected and appreciated. I'm getting emotional because they respected and appreciated me so much that they thought that that was a waste of my time to be in there while they saw that success,
Samantha Naes: 14:16
That was a success, not a failure.
Mike Kitko: 14:17
it was a huge success. But all I remember closing the door after they were like you can leave. We got this. I remember thinking I got to get out of here because I can't have any value. And I remember, like, feeling like Oh my God, I gotta start calling recruiters because I have no place in this organization anymore. And that was like the pinnacle of success but the depths of despair.
Jeff Koziatek: 14:39
The horror story I have is that my imposter syndrome drove me to do 350 shows a year and produced videos and shoot photography and be married and have kids and try to take care of myself that was not sustainable. And of those 350 shows, 200 of them would happen between June and August in just a three month time frame. So during that time frame, my wife is single with our kids, and I'm off pushing my body as hard as I can. And this is taking a toll on my marriage is taking a toll on my kids. So for like, you know, one month we would be prepping for this than three months, we would be separate, and then there'd be a two months reentry process like I am your husband. Well, that's great. We have everything taken care of, right? And so for six months out of the year, there's a strain on a relationship that I really like and want. And I started seeing a change of my kid's behavior, and I thought, Well, shoot. Either I can continue down this impostor road trying to earn value over here. Or I can step back and say, You know what? What I do does not bring me value it comes from who I am and I can set this down and I can try to engage in this stuff that really matters.
Samantha Naes: 15:50
That was awesome
Mike Kitko: 15:51
beautiful. Beautiful.
CN Video Production: 15:53
Thanks for listening to Super Manager by CN Video Production. Give us a call at 314-843-3663 That's 314 Video me. or visit our website at cn-video.com for additional episodes, information or to discuss video services.